Jonathan Davis @LogosFunction

No words are meaningless. Logic is abstract in itself. Things are logical, logic is not a thing in itself. Logic is always dependent on some thing on a fundamental level. "Natural processes develop logically without humans.." but become defined as logical by human observation and prescription of value. God is Triune, not singular. The bible directly says, "God is love" from the closest apostle of Jesus. God is the epitome of Logic, justice, truth, goodness, light, love, mercy, peace, sovereignty, and beauty. ​In many philosophical and spiritual traditions, God is not just the source of objective laws, but also the ultimate expression of grace and aesthetic perfection. "Logic is God and God is logical existence" The primary problem with equating logic and God is the fallacy of equivocation and a category mistake. It conflates a method of reasoning with a metaphysical entity. If logic is God, then saying "God is logical" just means "logic is logical," which is a tautology that defines nothing. If God must conform to logic, then logic is a higher authority than God. Conversely, if God created logic, God can transcend it, meaning God is not inherently bound by "logical existence."

The Father is the Most High and Source; He is the head without a direct physical form in itself-Jesus says He is a spirit. The Father expresses himself and makes himself known by His Holy Spirit/living Breath (Pneuma/Ruach) and by His logos-which is the divine reason, discourse, implicit logic, and ordering principle of the cosmos; that became a human and received the name Jesus. The Father is always giving source of life to Jesus and the Holy Spirit as one always gives life to their reason, discourse, implicit logic, and orderly principles; and as one breathes; but the God's divine revelation and living spirit are not the source of themselves.

@GJSmiff @MaclainHunter @vurp2001 @SSpence64 @sheltz32tt @grok @UgoCannon "The being"- so by default, not the abstract concept of reality or logic in itself. An actual concrete and personal being, not an abstract concept or idea.

Not trying to engagement farm, but if you have received the Holy Spirit and have been sealed, will you like this post and perhaps consider sharing it so that others may like it? It would be cool to see how many true Christians are on X and willing to be bold in their faith.

Just because others claim to be worshippers of the abrahamic God does not mean you can just lazily lump them all together in one basket with no distinctives. Jews worship the same God as Christians, but improperly. They reject Jesus as the messiah in fulfillment of prophecy. They do not believe or teach a cosmic balance between light and darkness, and all that. They do teach works based salvation though. Muslims claim to worship the same God by linguistic wordplay on the Arabic word for God "Allah" but they reject many of the core distinctives of the Jewish and Christian God such as God has a son, meaning they dont actually worship the same God. True faith in Jesus does not teach you must go through rituals, and it rejects that you must become enlightened. You must rest your faith on Jesus and his promises. These distinctions are important. Hindu sees the true God creating, and names the literal force and energy of God's creation as a god in itself; neglecting that Jesus is the agent by which God creates and is the source of all things including even energy. God is not one being showing up in different modes of himself or differing avatars. He always is as 3 distinct persons of Father, Son (logos), and Spirit (Pneuma). God is in this universe by His Son and Holy Spirit, but this universe is not God. This universe is fleeting and set to be destroyed; God is eternal and always will be, and so to will be those who find salvation in Jesus.

"Lighting gas on fire can **create** an explosion." Man is not always necessary for the creation of fire, and is irrelevant in the statement above. Fire + flammable gas creates an explosion. Every **thing** in the universe can have it's causal chains rewound and reversed down to the last atom until all the universe is condensed back into it's hyper-fluid, formless singularity state in the pre-plank era. Before this was God and only God.

God made eve from Adam but then henceforth made all men and women come from women. Specific women are not mentioned as much, but the ones who are usually carry significant weight and importance. For example: all 4 gospels record women discovering the empty tomb first which is a feature of embarrassment for historical writings. There is plenty of equality.

@valorthodoxia Do you think the disciples who went to the diaspora and early church never had to deal with homosexuality in the church? Paul had to address a guy who was sleeping with his step mother, specifically.

@CarolineJo9796 @Funding_fathers @MasterMaliq Paul recounts his encounter with Jesus in his epistles, but Luke also records it in Acts with the addition of the detail on Ananias who was the disciple sent by Jesus to heal Saul in Damascus. Things that make a fabrication by Paul unlikely

Jesus did claim to be the creator himself at John 17:5 [5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. You dont believe God sent His logos to become Jesus because you follow muhammad who had an encounter with a spirit being in a cave (a point which muhammad himself initially thought was a demon or evil spirit until he was convinced otherwise by his wife and friend), who told him otherwise. Muhammad thought he was a prophet and that the divine scriptures of the jews and christians spoke of him, but he couldn't actually read any of it. When later Christians and jews would not affirm that muhammad was a prophet, muhammad began saying that the divine inspired words of God had become corrupt in translation, and that God had no begotten. This statement of muhammads, that God has no begotten, had already been addressed and refuted by earlier Christianity at various stages. Im not just assuming my conclusion as much as sticking to what came first. We have manuscript evidence that demonstrates the bible we have today is consistent in translations with Bibles before muhammad was even born. The Quran even has parts that say the bible is the divine revealed words of God, while also saying the divine inspired words of God can never be corrupted. Muhammad even told people to go back and live by the bible first before coming to him for judgement, implying that the religious texts in Muhammad's day were reliably seen as authoritative and inspired. Jesus did claim to be the creator, but in ways that allowed those who were hard of hearts to resist so that prophecy would be fulfilled. Ive shared many of these passages with you already as have others. Must I share them again, or will you insist on the teachings inspired by a false prophet to say those passages mean something else, even when the jews around Jesus at the time often got angry with him for blasphemy?

@Matthew56193629 @MasterMaliq Hebrews is still an inspired word of God in his example lol. However, if the creator of heaven and earth became Jesus and is called the son of God, yet islam says the creator of heaven and earth has no son, then islam does not worship the creator of heaven and earth.

That is incorrect. God formed the darkness and separated it from the light. There no "cosmic balance" between light and darkness, good and evil. Before the universe was, God always was in infinite goodness and light. Darkness only exists because of God's great light and goodness. Think: the earth was void and without form, and darkness was upon the deep... what can establish that darkness was upon the deep unless there was a greater reference of light? At all points, God has been in control over the darkness.

Mark 2 is one of the earliest gospels- in debates on if Mark or Matthew came first or they shared off a "Q source." Mark 2:5-11, 27-28 [5] When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. [6] But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, [7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? [8] And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? [9] Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? [10] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) [11] I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. [27] And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: [28] therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. This passage is one of the strongest examples of Jesus revealing His divine identity in a way that a first-century Jewish audience would understand, while still leaving room for faith or rejection. The key is that Jesus does not simply walk into Capernaum and say, "I am God." Instead, He acts with the authority and prerogatives that belong to God alone and lets the audience draw the conclusion. In Mark 2:5, Jesus looks at the paralytic and says, "Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." The scribes immediately understand the implication. Notice that they do not accuse Him of healing on the Sabbath, nor do they misunderstand His words. Their objection is, "Who can forgive sins but God only?" In Jewish theology, sins committed against God ultimately belong to God's court. A prophet could announce God's forgiveness. A priest could declare forgiveness based on sacrifice. But Jesus does neither. He does not say, "God has forgiven you." He simply forgives the man's sins on His own authority. The scribes correctly recognize that this is either blasphemy or a divine claim. Jesus then does something remarkable. Instead of correcting them, He doubles down. He asks: "Whether is it easier to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?" Anyone can claim invisible authority. No one can instantly heal a paralytic by speaking. So Jesus performs the visible miracle to validate the invisible claim: "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins..." Then He heals the man. The logic is straightforward: Only God can forgive sins. Jesus claims authority to forgive sins. Jesus proves His claim through a miracle; therefore his claim is vindicated by God Himself. But Jesus goes even deeper than that. The title "Son of Man" was not merely a way of saying "human being." In the ears of a knowledgeable Jew, it pointed directly to the vision of Book of Daniel 7:13-14: "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven..." And what happens next? "And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him..." The Aramaic word translated "serve" (pelach) is used elsewhere in Daniel for the service and worship given to God. This "Son of Man" receives an everlasting kingdom, universal dominion, worship/service from all nations, and authority coming directly from the Ancient of Days. So when Jesus repeatedly calls Himself "the Son of Man," He is not merely identifying as human. He is identifying Himself with Daniel's heavenly figure who shares in God's eternal rule. Then Mark 2 ends with another explosive statement: "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." To a Jew, the Sabbath was not merely a religious tradition. It was instituted by God Himself at creation (Genesis 2) and codified by God at Sinai. The Sabbath belongs to God. Yet Jesus claims lordship over it. Notice the progression: He forgives sins (God's prerogative). He validates that authority by miracle. He identifies Himself as the Son of Man from Daniel 7. He declares Himself Lord of the Sabbath, an institution established by God. Each claim pushes further. Yet none are phrased in the blunt modern form, "I am God." Why? Because Jesus consistently reveals His identity in ways that fulfill prophecy and expose the heart. Those willing to believe see exactly what He is claiming. Those unwilling to believe can always retreat to another explanation. This pattern fulfills passages such as Book of Isaiah 6:9-10, where some would see but not perceive and hear but not understand. Jesus reveals enough that faith is reasonable and warranted, but not so overwhelmingly that rejection becomes impossible. The irony of Mark 2 is that the scribes actually understand the claim better than many modern readers. They immediately recognize that Jesus is placing Himself in God's position. The question in their minds is not, "What is He claiming?" The question is, "Does He have the right to claim it?" Jesus answers that question not merely with words, but by doing what only God can empower a man to do and by invoking the divine Son of Man of Daniel 7 who receives everlasting dominion, worship, and authority from the Ancient of Days. In a profoundly Jewish way, Jesus is revealing that the God of Israel has come among His people while still leaving room for faith (and therefore room for rejection), for those who refuse to believe. A small but often overlooked detail is found in Mark 2:8: "And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves..." The scribes never spoke their accusation aloud. Mark explicitly says they were reasoning in their hearts (vv. 6, 8). Yet Jesus responds directly to the very thoughts they had kept hidden. This is significant because throughout the Old Testament, the ability to truly know the inner thoughts and intentions of the heart is repeatedly presented as a uniquely divine attribute. For example: "For the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts." (1 Chronicles 28:9) And: "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins..." (Jeremiah 17:10) Likewise, at the dedication of the Temple, Solomon declares: "For thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men." (1 Kings 8:39) The Jewish Scriptures consistently teach that while men can judge appearances, God alone perfectly knows what is happening inside a person's heart and mind. So in Mark 2, Jesus is not merely performing a miracle or making a theological claim. He is demonstrating divine knowledge. The scribes are silently accusing Him of blasphemy in their hearts, and before they utter a word, Jesus exposes their reasoning and answers it. Taken together, the chapter presents a remarkable accumulation of evidence: Jesus knows the hidden thoughts of men's hearts. Jesus forgives sins on His own authority. Jesus validates that authority through miraculous healing. Jesus identifies Himself as the Son of Man of Daniel 7. Jesus declares Himself Lord of the Sabbath. Any one of these would have been startling. Mark deliberately stacks them together, creating a picture that would have been unmistakable to a Jewish audience: Jesus is exercising powers, authority, and prerogatives that the Scriptures repeatedly reserve for God Himself. The leaders understood exactly why these claims were so significant; which is why the conflict surrounding Jesus escalates so rapidly throughout the Gospel. The New Testament presents a beautiful and consistent pattern: Jesus never competes with the Father, diminishes the Father, or seeks independent glory from the Father. As the Logos, the eternal Word of God made flesh, Jesus continually honors, obeys, reveals, and glorifies the Father. Yet in response, the Father glorifies the Son, exalts Him, and commands that the Son receive the very honor and worship that belong to God. Jesus repeatedly directs attention toward the Father: "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me." (John 4:34) "I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth." (John 8:50) "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." (John 17:4) He presents Himself not as a rival deity competing for worship, but as the perfect image and revelation of the Father: "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." (John 14:9) At the same time, the Father does not leave the Son merely as a servant or prophet. Rather, the Father publicly honors, exalts, and glorifies Him. At Jesus' baptism: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17) At the Transfiguration: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." (Matthew 17:5) In John 5, Jesus makes one of the most astonishing statements in all of Scripture: "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." (John 5:23) Notice the standard: not merely similar honor, but honor given to the Son even as honor is given to the Father. Likewise, after Jesus humbled Himself unto death: "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow... and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11) Paul is drawing directly from Book of Isaiah 45:23, where Yahweh declares that every knee will bow to Him. Yet Paul applies that passage to Jesus while simultaneously saying this glorifies the Father. The same pattern appears in heaven itself. In Revelation, worship that belongs to God is given to both the Father and the Son: "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain..." and then: "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Revelation 5:12-13) The Father is worshiped. The Lamb is worshiped. Yet there is no conflict, competition, or division. The theological picture that emerges is profound: the Son eternally glorifies the Father, perfectly revealing Him as His Logos, Word, and Image. The Father, in turn, glorifies the Son, exalts Him above every name, and wills that all creation honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Therefore, worship of Jesus is not a detraction from the Father but obedience to the Father's own desire. In the words of Jesus Himself: "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) And in the words of the Father concerning the Son: "Let all the angels of God worship him." (Hebrews 1:6) The biblical witness is therefore not that the Father loses glory when the Son is worshiped, but that the Father is glorified precisely through the exaltation of His Son. The Son reveals the Father, and the Father reveals the Son, so that all creation may know the one true God through Jesus Christ whom He has sent (John 17:1-3).

@___TheGOOdWitch Matthew 1:19 KJV [19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. Matthew 5:7 KJV [7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

@AtheistTakes I trust people more when they tell me they are flawed and how they have been trying to improve over those who say they are not flawed.

Where is that in the bible? 1. Before the Incarnation: God Had No Permanent, Survivable Physical Form for Humans God appeared in temporary, veiled ways (theophanies), but seeing His full glory was deadly: Exodus 33:20 — “You cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” Exodus 33:18-23 — Moses sees only God’s “back”; God shields him. John 1:18 — “No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.” 1 Timothy 6:16 — God “dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see.” Pre-incarnate appearances (often linked to the Son): Genesis 18 (visitors to Abraham), Exodus 3 (burning bush), Joshua 5:13-15 (commander of the Lord’s army). 2. The Incarnation: God Now Has a Permanent, Physical, Worshippable Form (Jesus as the Image of God) The eternal Son took on real humanity forever; He is the visible image of the invisible God: John 1:14 — “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.” Colossians 1:15 — “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.” Colossians 2:9 — “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily.” Hebrews 1:3 — “He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature.” 2 Corinthians 4:4 — “...the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” Philippians 2:5-8 — Christ, “being in very nature God... took the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.” 3. Jesus Lives Eternally as Both Fully Human (“Son of Man”) and Fully God The two natures remain united in one Person forever: Luke 24:39 — “See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” Daniel 7:13-14 (quoted by Jesus) — “One like a son of man” given everlasting dominion. Acts 7:55-56 — Stephen sees “the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” Revelation 1:12-18 — Glorified Jesus appears with a human-like form yet divine attributes. Hebrews 13:8 — “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.” 4. Ascension to the Right Hand of the Father: Distinct Person, Shared Divine Essence “Right hand” = position of authority and co-rule, not literal separation implying two Gods. The Persons are distinct; the essence is one: Psalm 110:1 (most quoted OT verse in NT) — “The Lord says to my Lord: ‘Sit at my right hand...’” Mark 16:19 — “...the Lord Jesus... was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.” Acts 2:32-36 — God raised and exalted Jesus to His right hand; “God has made him both Lord and Christ.” Ephesians 1:20-22 — God “seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule...” Hebrews 1:3 — “After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” Romans 8:34; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 8:1, 10:12, 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22 — Repeated affirmations of Jesus at God’s right hand. Trinitarian unity and distinction: Matthew 28:19 (baptize in name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit); John 14-16 (mutual indwelling, sending); 2 Corinthians 13:14. 5. The Timing: Age/Times of the Gentiles Must Be Fulfilled First Full visible reign on earth awaits the completion of the Gentile mission: Luke 21:24 — “Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Romans 11:25 — “A partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10 — The gospel must be proclaimed to all nations first. Acts 1:6-8 — Jesus redirects focus to witness “to the end of the earth” before the kingdom’s full restoration. 6. Continuity of Faith: Same God, Same Saving Faith for OT Jews and NT Believers (with Greater Assurance Now) Old Testament saints trusted God’s promises (looking forward to the Messiah); we trust the same promises fulfilled in Christ: Hebrews 11 (whole chapter) — Faith of Abraham, Moses, etc., commended; they “greeted” the promises from afar. Romans 4:1-25 — Abraham justified by faith, same as us. Galatians 3:6-9, 29 — “Those of faith are the sons of Abraham”; we are heirs according to promise. John 8:56 — Abraham “rejoiced that he would see my day.” Hebrews 1:1-2 — God spoke in many ways through prophets; now by His Son (greater revelation). John 20:29 — “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed” (greater assurance through testimony and the Spirit). 1 Peter 1:10-12 — Prophets inquired about the grace now announced through the gospel and the Holy Spirit. Bonus Supporting Passages on the Broader Picture Incarnation + Ascension link: John 3:13; Philippians 2:9-11 (every knee bows to Jesus). Jesus’ intercession and rule: Hebrews 7:25; Revelation 5 (Lamb worthy of worship alongside the One on the throne).

Before Jesus became flesh, God had no true physical form that anyone could behold and live. After Jesus became a human, God forever had a physical form that all have been appointed to worship and honor as the image and Son of God. Even after death, Jesus came back to life and lives eternally as both the son of man and God as one. But the time for God to truly come and reign on earth with his people was not yet. The age of the gentiles needed to be fulfilled first. So Jesus ascended back to the right hand of the Father; because Jesus in his eternal physical body is distinct from the Father, but eternally linked and co-equal in one divine essence with their Holy Spirit. This makes faith the same for the jews before Jesus came and us after he ascended. Only, we have the greater assurance thanks to the birth of the church and her testimony.

My issue is that saying God does not exist is just as unsupported as a claim when you actually get down into the science. There are models and hypotheses but the data is not as conclusive as scientific naturalism portrays. Academics a lot of times kinda follows mega corporations in a way when they accidentally put out unsafe or defective products- the info (product) hits the markets (gets peer reviewed and put in textbooks) but then over time when the info gets revealed to be faulty or defective, more times than not the info gets quietly pulled rather than any real public notification. Sometimes, if the info seems insignificant or unlikely to be noticed too much or is still somewhat effective, the info wont get adjusted at all. Data does not interpret itself and no one is exempt from having a bias. If you are willing to believe that human made abstract numerical values and formulas can have meaningful predictive power within our reality, and that right now in our world we are surrounded by invisible forces constantly acting upon us, many of which you are totally oblivious to, why is God too far? God would not be God if He could not hide himself from humanity. A physical demonstration that could prove God is real would be illogical. Physically demonstrate that imaginary numbers exist at that point.

@vurp2001 @MaclainHunter @SSpence64 @sheltz32tt @grok @UgoCannon Considering that the bible pretty directly says that God is love, i wonder what he would make of that. God's love often defies human logic.

The problem is that he smuggles his conclusion into his premises. Nobody disputes the law of non-contradiction; that P cannot be not-P in the same sense, context, and time. The disagreement is over whether Logic itself is God. Saying "Logic is God" is not a logical proof; it is a metaphysical assertion. The law of non-contradiction only tells us that if God = Logic, then God cannot simultaneously be non-Logic. It does not prove that God and Logic are identical in the first place. Furthermore, classical Christianity has never taught that God is merely logic, reason, or abstract truth. In Scripture, God is a personal being who wills, loves, judges, creates, speaks, and enters into relationships. Logic is a property of God's nature, just as holiness, justice, and love are properties of God's nature. A property is not identical to the person possessing it. For example, saying "God is logical" does not mean "God is Logic" any more than saying "God is loving" means "God is Love itself in an abstract impersonal sense." Christianity teaches that logic reflects God's rational nature, not that logic exhaustively defines God. The appeal to the Logos also doesn't establish the identity. In the Gospel of John, the Logos is not presented as an impersonal system of logical relations. The Logos is a divine person who "became flesh" in Jesus Christ. The Greek concept includes reason, word, wisdom, expression, and divine self-revelation; not merely formal logic. Finally, appealing to "experts for thousands of years" doesn't settle the issue. Many philosophers have identified ultimate reality with reason, but many others have rejected that identification. The question is not what label people choose (Logic, Logos, Reality, Truth, God) but whether those terms refer to the same thing. That requires argument, not assertion. In short: the law of non-contradiction proves that a thing cannot be both itself and its negation. It does not prove that Logic, Reality, Truth, Logos, and God are all identical. That is the very point under debate. The argument assumes what it is trying to prove. That's a classic example of begging the question (circular reasoning).